Bienvenue visiteur, pour poster sur ce forum vous devez vous enregistrer.
Flux RSS MembresRecherche
Pages : 1
Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct?
Artillery Tokens in Heroes of Normandie... Have they been changed ? What are the rules to be followed now ? posté le [12/07/2020] à 14:46

I do explain:


I've artillery tokens and recruitmen options that report upon them the "2 space scatter" icon… But I own also many tokens (expecially US and British ones) that report upon them, instead, the "3 spaces scattering" icon…


Then…


I am here to answer the question that arose to me…


What is the correct "spacing" to be used for scatter the artillery strikes ?


I know that in "by night" missions the scatter is augmented by 1 space, due to darkness or such… Then… Are the "3 spaces" tokens meant to be used only in nightime missions ? Or they represent a different type of "imprecise" artillery ?!?


Can someone answer me about those tokens and how are they meant to be used ?

I find that a "3 spaces" scatter is too much imprecise… It happened often (2 or 3 times) that a "3 spaces" artillery barrage ended up in leveling my own troops due to a bad dice roll… I accept this, since in war and in WW II we have a plentyful of examples about such kind of "friendly fire" / casualties… But in Heroes of Normandie; I had not thought till now, that also the more unprecise artilleries where reproduced. And in rules or in the Compendium such 2 types of artillery tokens are not even depicted and explained so well… It is not even told if one of them has to be considered "wrong" and the other one "correct"; or if they are both to be considered "different" at all effects, relatively to the game's mechanics / rules themselves…


I use them as 2 different types of artillery… Being the "3 spaces" one a more unprecise type or a naval based barrage…


But maybe I'm playing it wrongly…


Can you tell me if there are some differences or if I've lost "something"?!? Or if one between the "2 spacing" or the "3 spacing" tokens is a sort of "misprint" of the game or similar ?

Thank you all in advance; and happy gaming !!!


Artillery Tokens in Heroes of Normandie... Have they been changed ? What are the rules to be followed now ? posté le [13/07/2020] à 04:13

The original v1.0 of Heroes of Normandy envisioned a recruitment option that let you add Artillery cards to your Action deck. The options were cheaper (15 pts for one card, 30 pts for 3 cards). The Artillery cards had their own scatter and attack values, even though they would indicate a particular Indirect Fire template (or templates) to use, but only for determining direction of scatter and which units are affected by the Artillery fire.


However, that older system is no longer used. More recent expansions use a system of recruit options which give you markers you can spend to do artillery attacks. These markers (like the cards) have the various attack stats (and scatter) printed on the markers and those are the numbers to use. The template is again used only to determine the direction of scatter and which models are affected by the explosion when the shell goes off.


Not all Artillery is the same. Some of it scatters more than others. Use the values printed on a given token that matches a given recruitment tile.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [27/04/2021] à 19:06

I have noticed that Mortar (Granatwerfer) indirect fire varies considerably from unit to unit.


As noted, the scatter templates were updated as were some of the rules over time.


SO… I cannot seem to find any specifics on what looks like a YELLOWISH ORANGE blast scatter for a mortar included in the FFI group. I'd think it was a mistake, but it coincides with a similar colored blast pattern seen in the original Heroes of Normandie rulebook and the compendium symbol definition sheet. (Can't see any rules for this YELLOWISH ORANGE symbol for damage or it's actual inclusion on a blast pattern overlay.)


The other US mortar in the base game coincides with a BLUE blast pattern. (Got it… that is covered.)


Then, the German forces have an ORANGE RED blast pattern on a Granatwerfer unit included on the Steiner Kampfgruppe punch board. (Significantly bigger shell apparently as it goes up two notches from the Blue.)


OK… so various weapons have different blast patterns. BUT… why aren't there any stats on that YELLOWISH ORANGE once created for a damage or blast pattern?


Second question regarding Indirect Fire… during NIGHT TIME rules the indication is to augment the scatter X2. There should be an example provided on just how that should be done. What is required to actually hit… two consecutive 5-6 dice rolls? There are numerous ways that this could be configured… has anyone ever actually determined what is meant specifically?


Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [27/04/2021] à 20:56

The yellow blast template comes with the Commonwealth Army Box. It's easily confused with the orange blast template because of the color.



There's a really handy blast template reference/guide in the downloads: Game Help – Blast Pattern – V1.2


Quote from Ganymedepro on [27/04/2021] à 19:06

Second question regarding Indirect Fire… during NIGHT TIME rules the indication is to augment the scatter X2. There should be an example provided on just how that should be done. What is required to actually hit… two consecutive 5-6 dice rolls? There are numerous ways that this could be configured… has anyone ever actually determined what is meant specifically?


In night time, I think you roll for scatter as normal, then double the range. So on a 5-6 you hit, on a 1-4 you scatter twice the distance in the indicated range.


Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [27/04/2021] à 22:02

That's just the information I was looking to find!


Thanks Quickle… much appreciated!!! :mrgreen:


Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [27/04/2021] à 22:25

First of all, this thread was about Artillery (as defined in HoN), not Indirect Fire, but I can certainly forgive the confusion 😉


Ink color varies by the humidity at the time the item was printed and the exact color of the cardboard underneath. And before anyone brings up Pantone, that requires compliance at the printer, which is not always available.


Then there is color perception, which can vary based on the colors surrounding the printed color in question and those with less than ideal color perception. I would wish that the HoBR version of the icons was imported into the WW2 line, compatibility with previously printed expansions precluded such a change.


I, myself, am somewhat color perception challenged, and had started to publish a list of modifiers for different templates until DPG got tired of my asking about the color on this unit or that unit and did a nice graphical version which is a very helpful reference list for template values available for download, as Quickle has already mentioned.


Unfortunately, it will need to be updated for the BRO stuff once it is finalized.


Can you be more specific about what you mean by "Night Time"? Do you mean from a specific expansion? I have soaked in 2nd Edition rules for so long I don't automatically recall all the expansion materials any more.


The Compendium defines two states of Night, Clear Night and Dark Night (p. 27).

Clear Night does not change indirect fire, but small arms fire range is limited to 9 squares and long range is now from the 7th square onward.

Dark Night increases the scatter distance by 2 squares, but does not otherwise change the range of Indirect Fire. Small arms is limited to a max range of 7 squares, and long range starts at 5.


There is also an entry for Fog, which also increases scatter by 2, but limits small arms fire to 9 squares, with long range starting at 6 squares.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [27/04/2021] à 23:24

Yes, it could be pretty challenging for some with color recognition issues. The BROWN is the most common grenade blast. They created a YELLOWISH ORANGE (Lighter than the REDDISH ORANGE) for some reason which is a light mortar round exactly the same as the BROWN … no difference in effect of blast. Why a different color???


As for the question regarding the NIGHT effect. I'm only operating with the SoN base rules. The NIGHT token/template for effects on a Mortar says no restriction on the range of Indirect Fire… but Dispersion from Indirect Fire is "augmented" by 2 spaces.


The fact that Indirect Fire has a dispersion of 2 regularly, unless you roll a 5 or 6 … is hard to perceive what "augmented" by 2 more is under Night conditions.


So, if you roll a 5-6 absolutely there is no difference when firing in daylight or night? It would seem more realistic that to hit at night there would be a double roll… to determine the exact location of the hit spot. Not one roll and then a 2 + 2 determination of the hit interspace.


No examples or further information from the original HoN rules, SoN or in SoS.


Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [28/04/2021] à 10:22

Currently, if you roll a 5-6 you still hit.


You bring up an interesting idea for a house rule.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [28/04/2021] à 21:53

I have to wonder with all the various things that come up with this game… how much playtesting is actually done prior to publication. As you noted they changed the artillery cards and a few other things along the way.


From my recent attempts to make use of a mortar in the game… it's really not very effective. You generally have a better chance of hitting what you want with a thrown grenade. The actions allotted in a given turn don't warrant putting one on an artillery unit. It seemed to me they should have a restricted gray star on them that allows them a firing shot each turn. Generally artillery was pretty automated and just kept unloading without much concern for other things going on.


This is just based upon the few units I have available for artillery & vehicle type shots. I'm sure allowing all of them a free action would be too much… but right now the distance on the table favors infantry. They can close on vehicles and artillery very easily and gun butt them into oblivion which is not realistic.


Artillery Tokens - Which Are Correct? posté le [28/04/2021] à 23:27

Quote from Ganymedepro on [28/04/2021] à 21:53

From my recent attempts to make use of a mortar in the game… it's really not very effective. You generally have a better chance of hitting what you want with a thrown grenade. The actions allotted in a given turn don't warrant putting one on an artillery unit. It seemed to me they should have a restricted gray star on them that allows them a firing shot each turn. Generally artillery was pretty automated and just kept unloading without much concern for other things going on.


Funny you should say that… you might want to dig out the thread about Mortars being overpowered from a few years ago.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Pages : 1