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COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS.
COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [06/12/2021] à 00:59

Me and my fellow wargamer friend with which I usually play, do find the actual minefields official rules to be counter intuitive and not "natural" because, even if mine tokens and decoys are put flipped face down on the play table, it is too much clear to both sides where are they placed… And, for realism sake, it is unnatural for the attacking force which has to bypass such fields, to know already where minefields are; more or less… At least until its very first tank or troop has been blown by one mine of those fields…

Hence, why not to try the following alt. rules for using mines?!?


The rules are the following:


1) the cost in army points or the number limits of mines/minefields could be retained as they are now. Or, if you would like to, they could be arranged and setupped to particular amounts or cases for specific tailor made scenarios or similar, such as you could find cool to place down mines not in compact fields as they are supposed to be placed down by the "official rules"… And scatter them all around the field…

2) mines could be placed inside buildings and/or terrain elements (to simulate booby trapped terrains or housings and such, or ieds and similar things)… To me, it adds more thrill factor or realism (in some cases) to the gaming session…

3) instead of moving normally your troops though a minefield that you already know where it is, if you use the attacking army and the other player choosed to deploy mines, your adversary must not deploy them all on the ground as the current rules state. Instead, each time you have to move (only the player that did not lay down the minefields has to roll before moving), you MUST roll a d6 before taking such action. If 1 (or another number or range of them, if you orefer so) is rolled up you spotted or walked upon a mine with your tank or troop tile… You have then to draw one of the mine token from the whole mix of mine tokens your adversary has chosen during the army building step. And he had previously put inside a bag.

Once you have drawn that mine token you follow the official rules for mines: you have to reveal, firstly, if the token drawn is a decoy, an antitank mine, an antipersonnel one or an ied or a mine like the germans and soviets used to put down, maybe similar to the booby traps or the so called "bouncing betties" (up to you to find rules for them, or just follow the rules for gebalte ladung or AC4 mines and such to proxy those last types of explosive devices).

4) once you did so, put down the drawn mine token if you walked over it with a non matching troop/tank type (soldiers or tanks) with the troop/tank type for whom the mine drawn is made for to be triggered.

5) if, instead, the drawn mine is, for example, an antitank one and you walked over it with a tank or vehicule, roll to see if it blows up and apply damages or destroy the tank/troop hit by the mine itself by following the official rules.

6) after this iteration of moves and rolls, if you chose to setup mines following the official rules, place down a proper minefield… So doing simulates, at 100%, the fact that now the hit side is aware that in the area there are mines!!! Or, if you opted to scatter mines as I suggested to do some line above, roll a die and if you get 4 to 6, you are free to choose the way mines are layed down or to put down only the drawn token, if it did not trigger… Or it was a decoy/dud one… As per the normal rules.

7) If the mine(s) did not trigger or was a decoy/dud one, or the minefield is deployed following the official rules, your engineers or scouts or officers (you choose) have the chance to defuse it/them. Here, you can opt to follow the "only cogs iconed troops can defuse mines" rules or you can simply use minesweepers troops given to you by certain expansions of the game system or find house rules by yourselves in order to extablish "who and how" can defuse such explosive device/s (or try to do that!!!).

8) Engineers that defuse a mine can use such mine against the enemy that deployed it: in real life it happened often… Look what happened with the renown "devil's gardens" during the battles of El Alamein, where all the sides defused enemy's minefields and used them against the opposing force… Italians vs British, British vs Germans, Germans vs British and so on, the way around…


I think that this is a cool set of alternative / more realistic rules for placement/defusing mine(s)…


Let me know what you think about them or if you like them or not. Or if you found some spots where this mix of house rules could be "refined" or "trimmed" here and there so to keep them easy/easier to use and remember or to simulate real life mines better…


I hope you will enjoy this method as much as I had fun in inventing it…


Bye. Have fun, and do roll well!!!


COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [06/12/2021] à 10:11

Minefields are usually marked as such, so that the side setting them up don't themselves walk into them. So I think it is perfectly fine for both sides to know where they are. Minefields are meant as deterrent to movement.


I also don't like to roll a die each time somebody is moving. That's a lot of dierolls over the game.


What your rules is describing is booby traps rather than minefields.


Will both sides be rolling for the minefield as they move? If not, it is kind of odd that one side can move around without triggering the mines while the other side, moving through the same squares, might trigger mines. I don't think the WW2 mines had the IFF technology installed yet.


But, ruleswise, I think this is a fine alternative to the official rules. As long as you don't mind rolling the die each time somebody is moving.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [06/12/2021] à 13:59

Quote from Colhammer on [06/12/2021] à 10:11

Minefields are usually marked as such, so that the side setting them up don't themselves walk into them. So I think it is perfectly fine for both sides to know where they are. Minefields are meant as deterrent to movement.


I also don't like to roll a die each time somebody is moving. That's a lot of dierolls over the game.


What your rules is describing is booby traps rather than minefields.


Will both sides be rolling for the minefield as they move? If not, it is kind of odd that one side can move around without triggering the mines while the other side, moving through the same squares, might trigger mines. I don't think the WW2 mines had the IFF technology installed yet.


But, ruleswise, I think this is a fine alternative to the official rules. As long as you don't mind rolling the die each time somebody is moving.


Minefields are not meant to be marked where they are… Only today, mines are marked, expecially where NATO operates… In WW II they were not… Because if you mark mines their deterrence power fades away, in my opinion. In addition, the side that lay them down already knows where they are so it has no need to identify them or roll before moving, game wise. The roll before moving does only occur until the first troop of the opposing force triggers a mine by rolling 1 on the die. And IFF technology that you talk about… Maybe only in The Rock's movies do exist. But maybe I am wrong… And surely it did not exist in the 1940s… So… Where is the point?!? If your army layed down the mines your troops don't need to roll because they know already where mines are and safe walk ways or safe patterns are… Only the enemy troops and vehicules have to roll a die before moving. And only until the 1st mine triggers and such opens up the choice to deploy minefields as current rules state. Or decide to wait, and think such mine to be an isolated one… Using the alternative "scattered mines" system that I wrote down. It permits to cover up more spaces using the same number of mines allowed by official rules.


COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [06/12/2021] à 22:41

Sorry, but it seems to me that your point of view is rather unrealistic :

Only the pioneers who buried the mines know where they are. And Hans the pioneer is rarely the same as Wolfgang the gunner. So Wolfgang needs to have clear marks. Like this :


Where is the point?!? If your army laued down the mines your troops don't need to roll because they know already where mines are and safe walk ways or safe patterns are…


This is really unrealistic, sorry.


After that, marked minefields are a way to say : this side is impassable, we are protected. Because who want to play with death like Russian roulette? And it could be false minefields. This, only the side that lay them can know.


COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [12/12/2021] à 08:59

Quote from cdmdu on [06/12/2021] à 22:41

Sorry, but it seems to me that your point of view is rather unrealistic :

Only the pioneers who buried the mines know where they are. And Hans the pioneer is rarely the same as Wolfgang the gunner. So Wolfgang needs to have clear marks. Like this :


Where is the point?!? If your army laued down the mines your troops don't need to roll because they know already where mines are and safe walk ways or safe patterns are…


This is really unrealistic, sorry.


After that, marked minefields are a way to say : this side is impassable, we are protected. Because who want to play with death like Russian roulette? And it could be false minefields. This, only the side that lay them can know.



Ok; but to mark minefields is like to shoot using water guns instead of real bullets… It makes easy for the enemy to bypass or defuse such minefields… Or am I wrong?!? By the way, I had fun reading your "Hans and Wolfgang" joke… It helps to get your point of view… And to a certain extent you are correct if the mines have been layed down recently… But usually, in Normandie at least, the Germans had months or years to prepare minefields and to tell to each single soldier, Hans or Wolfgang they had been, where such mines where… In order to avoid "friendly fire" or "dumb behaviours leading to self injuries" by their own troops… And yes, in most cases they layed down also warning wooded planks like those depicted by yourself but it impaired the effectiveness of those minefileds too… Or not?!?


COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [12/12/2021] à 20:05

You cannot bury mines in random spots around the Normandy and expect the 50.000 germans to memorize all the spots… You have to mark the minefields.

Not to mention the french civilians living there. Are the Germans really gonna tell all the civilians where they secretly hide the mines?


No, the permanent minefields are marked.


Minefields are an area denial weapon. They funnel the attacking troops into kill zones (as the troops are forced to go around them to places the Germans wanted the attacking troops to go).


That is the point of the (marked) minefileds. To slow down and redirect the attacking forces.


Laying down mines as a part of an ambush don't get marked of course. There the point is to surprise, distract and disable the advancing foe.


This is supposed to be a joyful occasion. Lets not bicker and argue about who killed who.

COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [20/12/2021] à 16:39

Indeed… I forgot such different cases… Sorry.


COOL ALTERNATIVE RULES FOR USING MINEFIELDS IN HON/HOS. Posted on [23/12/2021] à 12:23

Some interesting detail from WW2…


http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/ttt09/marking-minefields.html


And this is from 2004 military manual but refers to the Geneva Convention…


https://www.marines.mil/Portals/1/Publications/FM%2020-32%20W%20CH%201-4.pdf


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