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How about new products?
How about new products? Posted on [21/05/2021] à 18:15

I don't see the point into adding newer things that instead are mere older ones "repackaged"!!! I mean… Couldn't it be better to print new sets adding new armies such as Italians, Japanese or similar ?!? To print newer theaters' sets adding the chance to play scenarios in the Pacific or in North Africa ?!? I think also that some masterpiece expansions such as the Gazzettes should be kept alive and maybe reprinted "all-in-one-bundle" inside new core boxes, maybe, as "promo expansions" and so on…


I am also upset that some expansions such as the expansion of Stalingrad are deemed to be not reprinted at all or similar. I need to add it to my

collection and to buy the Stalingrad line of boxes and do not see with good eye the fact that you, Devil Pig Games, want to reprint the core set of Heroes of Normandie… Just to refresh the graphic and style of the tiles !!! Absurd !!!


You should instead try to reprint the terrain tiles in a more flat and light material instead of using hard cardboards: it is almost impossible to me to bring ALL the material of Heroes of Normandie I own so to be able to have plentyful of choices and scenarios' options to build when I play in gaming stores or similar and at home of my gaming friends !!!


You should print all the already printed terrain tile in a material like that one used for the Heroclix gaming mats… Which is practical, plastificated and waterproof and it is more light and easy to fold up and unfold (so doing it will also help to speed up the game setup!!!).


I'd like to have such type of thinner but sturdier and lighter terrain tiles to play upon with !!! What do you think about this idea ?!?

Is it feasable or not ? I think it should be thought about seriously to add such type of tiles to the game !!!

Maybe they could be printed onto plastic cardboards recicled, so doing it will help surely the enterprises that recycle plastic material and save the environment too in a certain way…


I am giving out only my humble toughts of a gamer and collector "aficionado" that would have the chance to buy the things his collection lacks at a price affordable and not see instaed print and reprints after one another of the same old stuff / core sets !!!


Why don't you reprint instead the devices act to store the troops in order that I see always OUT OF STOCK ?!? They are a damn good complement to the collection and also could help me in storing all the stuff in order to quicken the setups of the game !!!


Mine is a constructive critic… Take it however into account…

I think those ideas could give the game a good "new wind" and edge…


Bye and Peace…

Ivan


How about new products? Posted on [21/05/2021] à 19:05

Hello, I am a newer player (HOS was my first set) and wanted to lay out how I see some of the comments in Ivan's post. My purpose is not to say they are wrong, but to instead show why some of these decisions by DPG make sense to me.


1. Reprinting older material: Ivan makes the point that "repackaging" older material is a waste of time but does want availability of the out of print content such as gazettes and HOS battleground pack.


First I would like to point out that HON has been unavailable for some time, and that funding a reprint through kickstarter was necessary for it to be available to newer players such as myself, yay! As far as the "repackaging", I super appreciate it. The older sets art, rules, errata, and print quality all sound like they had significant problems. Even if later editions fixed some of these aspects, there were still fundamental incompatibilities due to rules changes in V2 such as card decks, artillery, and air. A simple reprint of the core box would have been a much lower quality product for me to have bought without the additions to make it more compatible.


As far as other reprints go, it is a matter of demand. DPG cannot pay to keep lots of stock unsold in warehouses and must make sure that if a reprint happens that much of it will sell. It makes no sense to immediately reprint the HOS battlegrounds box right after most of the people who wanted it bought it, AND they are trying to make the HON core box available first. I agree that I want all of the old content available in some form, but I think we both have to be patient. We can do some light bugging now and then though to bring attention to it… Pointe du Hoc *cough cough*


2. New theatres and armies:


That would be awesome. I especially would like HON to expand into the pacific so we could have some other axis powers keep the Germans company. In this thread:

https://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/forum/?action=viewtopic&t=13567.0

Yann recently posted that they were going to try and release a battle for Caen expansion focusing on the English V2 next, with maybe the Pacific coming after that! So it sounds like more work is going into those ideas


3. Out of stock storage:


This BRO kickstarter is also putting the storage back into production again so there should be some stock back in the store afterwards. If you really want to make sure you get some though I believe you can late pledge the kickstarter and order add ons without ordering the base game, but I am unsure if that is 100% true or how to do it.


4. different terrain tile material:


A waterproof tile sounds nice. I bet DPG is concerned about compatibility with the older production runs but outside of that it sounds super cool. Maybe if some more people can voice support and they can find a good manufacturer we could see it in the future?


Anyway, thanks for bringing some ideas to the table so we could think it over, and I hope that other people can chime in who are more knowledgeable then I am so we can all figure out what is best for DPG and this HON game we all love!


How about new products? Posted on [22/05/2021] à 04:57

There are logical reasons for reprinting the HoN core box, it is hardly just a "graphical face lift". The core box of a line is important to support the rest of the line. It also is the entry point for new players.


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How about new products? Posted on [22/05/2021] à 12:44

I think it's great that we are getting a new edition of HON, I came very late to the table (my friends down the wargames club kept telling me about this great game they played but it took a long while for me to actually listen) so could only get a second hand copy of the first edition.


Reprints are good but I would rather see the line expand into new areas such as the Pacific (of course I am expectantly waiting on the Commonwealth to be released now)


I'd love to see the Italians released sometime for HON, particularly their paratroopers


How about new products? Posted on [24/05/2021] à 20:34

i can't say it often enough: vietnam !! that would be great.


I currently have almost 99% of all HON and HOS products. I only miss a few citizen expansions. I feel I have enough variety to fight in WW2 time. hence my option for something completely different from the same and then Vietnam seems like a nice option. Vietnam has a lot to offer.


if it should remain WW2 I would like more variation in Russian troops.


or in addition to HON and HOS, you should make a version with HO-1939/40 and then focus on the start of the war and mer units from that early period. then you also have more choice of countries and armies.


Zijn er ook nerderlandse spelers onder ons? Omgeving nijmegen, uden, enz.

How about new products? Posted on [27/05/2021] à 12:43

Vietnam would be interesting but I would rather see WW2 get comprehensive coverage first. I wouldn't be particularly interested in 1940 expansions, I am much more interested in Late War and would love to see some Volksturmm units etc. for the final campaigns in Germany.


How about new products? Posted on [27/05/2021] à 12:52

Volksgrenadier units with MP44's would be a nice addition too


[HoN] Who are These Heroes? Posted on [27/05/2021] à 19:39

Ivan, they Sometimes do P500 campaigns to reprint old stuff. It’s not itself for itself, if they reprint and doesn’t sell they will end up with a lot of money sunk in leftover products and storage. As long as they do these reprint campaigns often I don’t see a problem. On KS people pay in advance so they know exactly how much to print and avoid too much leftover, so it seems a safe way to get products out there for them.


How about new products? Posted on [28/05/2021] à 19:38

Quote from filliped on [27/05/2021] à 19:39

Ivan, they Sometimes do P500 campaigns to reprint old stuff. It’s not itself for itself, if they reprint and doesn’t sell they will end up with a lot of money sunk in leftover products and storage. As long as they do these reprint campaigns often I don’t see a problem. On KS people pay in advance so they know exactly how much to print and avoid too much leftover, so it seems a safe way to get products out there for them.


I think that it could cost less to reprint some of the expansions than a new reprint of core boxes just to have a better graphics layout and nothing more that the Stalingrad box set can add…


I think that the core set box numnber one in stocks should be sold before the reprinting of it…

But since I was asked to not write anymore about this topic and legitimate request, not only for me, but for all the normal customers that are not Kickstarter pledgers… I will try to not write about it anymore.

Even if I see it as an imposition somehow… And it is a way to consider kickstarter backers as A tier customers and the other ones as being B tier customer… And it is not fair or politically correct; in 2021.


How about new products? Posted on [28/05/2021] à 19:42

Quote from Idiots.Inc on [21/05/2021] à 19:05

Hello, I am a newer player (HOS was my first set) and wanted to lay out how I see some of the comments in Ivan's post. My purpose is not to say they are wrong, but to instead show why some of these decisions by DPG make sense to me.


1. Reprinting older material: Ivan makes the point that "repackaging" older material is a waste of time but does want availability of the out of print content such as gazettes and HOS battleground pack.


First I would like to point out that HON has been unavailable for some time, and that funding a reprint through kickstarter was necessary for it to be available to newer players such as myself, yay! As far as the "repackaging", I super appreciate it. The older sets art, rules, errata, and print quality all sound like they had significant problems. Even if later editions fixed some of these aspects, there were still fundamental incompatibilities due to rules changes in V2 such as card decks, artillery, and air. A simple reprint of the core box would have been a much lower quality product for me to have bought without the additions to make it more compatible.


As far as other reprints go, it is a matter of demand. DPG cannot pay to keep lots of stock unsold in warehouses and must make sure that if a reprint happens that much of it will sell. It makes no sense to immediately reprint the HOS battlegrounds box right after most of the people who wanted it bought it, AND they are trying to make the HON core box available first. I agree that I want all of the old content available in some form, but I think we both have to be patient. We can do some light bugging now and then though to bring attention to it… Pointe du Hoc *cough cough*


I don t want to quarrel with you, but you did not get the point I was trying to bring forth…

I was talking in the sake and interest of myself as an existing customer, not a Kickstarter Backer, which, in my opinion, are treated better than normal collectors and buyers that does not want to do kickstarter or similar…


And it s not a good thing to treat your customer and "aficionados" to be A tier or B tier ones in relation to the fact they did or did not Kickstarter pledges !!!


How about new products? Posted on [28/05/2021] à 23:25

Without Kickstarter backers, there would not BE a product for anyone else to purchase. Backers put up their money BEFORE a product exists in the hopes that the campaign will be successful and they will get a copy of the product. As a reward for gambling their money, they expect to get something extra to make it worth their while. As a backer of over 200 Kickstarter campaigns, I can tell you that it is not a guarantee a product will ever be delivered. (Thankfully that has never been the case with a DPG campaign. It may not arrive when it was forecast to arrive, but it will arrive.)


For various reasons, the current trend on Kickstarter is for exclusive content. That means there are things that backers get that non-backers explicitly do not. This is similar to getting a numbered and signed print of an artwork — the rarity and unobtainability increases the value (perceived or otherwise).


Since those extras were presented as exclusives during the campaign, they must remain that way as that was part of the value proposition pledged to the backers. That is the price of getting the money to print the product in the first place.


So if you bought a retail copy and you like the game, perhaps thank the backers that made it possible, and grant them their cookies for their trust.


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How about new products? Posted on [28/05/2021] à 23:47

Quote from Ivan Boscaro on [28/05/2021] à 19:38

I think that it could cost less to reprint some of the expansions than a new reprint of core boxes just to have a better graphics layout and nothing more that the Stalingrad box set can add.


I have already covered this in this same thread, but perhaps I can be more clear.


The value of reprinting the main core box of the line has nothing to do with "better graphics layout". It is the foundation of the majority of the entire HSTS system. It also needs to be in print to support new players. Given the huge success of the new Kickstarter (larger than that of HoS), there would appear to be many that do not share your point of view.


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How about new products? Posted on [28/05/2021] à 23:54

Quote from Alan Hume on [27/05/2021] à 12:52

Volksgrenadier units with MP44's would be a nice addition too


Those would make an interesting part of a "late war" pack at some point. Although with the increase of submachine guns, they would be something of a short-range platoon.


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How about new products? Posted on [29/05/2021] à 06:30

Quote from Ivan Boscaro on [21/05/2021] à 18:15

You should print all the already printed terrain tile in a material like that one used for the Heroclix gaming mats… Which is practical, plastificated and waterproof and it is more light and easy to fold up and unfold (so doing it will also help to speed up the game setup!!!).


There were some battle mats designed for use in the tournaments that were in a format that could be printed on vinyl or neoprene… they were fixed mats but offered some more transportable options. Something like that would work for what you want to do, although not as flexible as individual tiles.


https://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/forum/?action=viewtopic&t=11945.1#postid-83588


That has a couple of mat images you could use. Hope that helps!


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How about new products? Posted on [30/05/2021] à 18:04

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [28/05/2021] à 23:54


Quote from Alan Hume on [27/05/2021] à 12:52

Volksgrenadier units with MP44's would be a nice addition too


Those would make an interesting part of a "late war" pack at some point. Although with the increase of submachine guns, they would be something of a short-range platoon.


They would be a great addition. They would be the same range as a rifleman though as the MP44 is not a submachine gun but instead it is an assault rifle (the world's first)


I'd love to see some late war packs for sure


Expansion Sanity Check Posted on [31/05/2021] à 23:50

[Edit: The original context was a question about why they're re-treading existing ground by releasing Bloody Omaha when D-Day already exists, rather than covering new theaters.]


My guess is that most or all of the version 1 content will be gradually replaced by newer content updated to the version 2 styles and rules. The new content will also be packaged differently to make it easier for retail stores to stock.


For myself and probably many other people, BRO is our first entry point to the Heroes system. I think they're trying to make that entry point as welcoming as possible. Rather than making newcomers refer back to errata and rules changes from years ago, they're providing updated content that will hopefully avoid some of those difficulties.


They're not replacing stuff exactly – there's no "D-Day 2.0" set – because that would upset the people who have been supporting them for a long time (and make it hard to sell any remaining inventory). Instead they release similar content (BRO vs Core, Bloody Omaha vs D-Day) so that the older content doesn't become entirely obsolete. The v1 stuff remains mostly compatible with version 2, so the people who own the older stuff aren't left behind.


I don't DPG expects newcomers to *want* to buy all of the past content – or at least not many of them. If they thought there was huge demand for their entire back catalog I'm sure they would run a crowdfunding campaign to pay for it. And indeed they have done this, to a more limited degree, in some of the past P-500s and Kickstarters.


Instead, the goal is probably to rebuild interest in a revitalized version 2 system. Bring new people in with BRO, then add on new content in order of popularity. D-Day is probably the conflict that's most enticing for the most people (especially the US market, where they're trying to regain their foothold), so that makes sense as the first expansion – Bloody Omaha.


Once they've given newcomers a fresh baseline, they do plan to expand out into fresher content. They've said they plan to cover Caen and then Guadalcanal after that. And then, depending on how the game and expansions are selling at that point, I would expect that they'll look produce content covering additional battles, theaters, armies, etc.


But none of that additional content can happen if they can't grow their customer base. D-Day content is probably the closest thing they have to a guaranteed seller, and that's what they need right now.


How about new products? Posted on [08/06/2021] à 07:51

Quote from RansomOfThulcandra on [31/05/2021] à 23:50

For myself and probably many other people, BRO is our first entry point to the Heroes system. I think they're trying to make that entry point as welcoming as possible. Rather than making newcomers refer back to errata and rules changes from years ago, they're providing updated content that will hopefully avoid some of those difficulties.


They're not replacing stuff exactly – there's no "D-Day 2.0" set – because that would upset the people who have been supporting them for a long time (and make it hard to sell any remaining inventory). Instead they release similar content (BRO vs Core, Bloody Omaha vs D-Day) so that the older content doesn't become entirely obsolete. The v1 stuff remains mostly compatible with version 2, so the people who own the older stuff aren't left behind.


You have a good grasp of the basic idea…I will add one more point: Beach landings will always be closely tied to a product called "Heroes of Normandie"… Both of them being done as a new core set should not be a surprise. As you point out, DPG goes out of their way to make this V2 product useful to both new players and existing players.


D-Day is not Bloody Omaha. They have a different focus. Omaha is sort of a "best of" combination of the Army box plus new Aviation and new invasion mechanisms. Not as modular as D-Day as far as the invasion itself, but a great compliment. It will not appeal to all existing players, but it is important for the new players to have access to most of that.


Doing a kit to make the Commonwealth forces available for new players with something like a Caen Battle pack is likewise an important option for new players.


I would love to see a Free French Battle pack myself. Getting the FFI right now is a very piecemeal affair and difficult at best.


Once they've given newcomers a fresh baseline, they do plan to expand out into fresher content. They've said they plan to cover Caen and then Guadalcanal after that. And then, depending on how the game and expansions are selling at that point, I would expect that they'll look produce content covering additional battles, theaters, armies, etc.


But none of that additional content can happen if they can't grow their customer base. D-Day content is probably the closest thing they have to a guaranteed seller, and that's what they need right now.


Again, you seem (from my understanding) to have a great grasp on the situation. Thanks for expressing it so well.


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How about new products? Posted on [08/06/2021] à 14:47

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [22/05/2021] à 04:57

There are logical reasons for reprinting the HoN core box, it is hardly just a "graphical face lift". The core box of a line is important to support the rest of the line. It also is the entry point for new players.



But if DPG has still in stocks copies of the first runs of the core set plus stocks of Heroes of Stalingrad… It sound nonsense to me… In that sense… I mean: why don't sell those sets with great discounts to newer gamers while still retaining available and open the chance for EACH customer to buy or ask for a copy of EACH set you have in the line, Out of Print items included?!?


How about new products? Posted on [08/06/2021] à 14:56

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [29/05/2021] à 06:30


Quote from Ivan Boscaro on [21/05/2021] à 18:15

You should print all the already printed terrain tile in a material like that one used for the Heroclix gaming mats… Which is practical, plastificated and waterproof and it is more light and easy to fold up and unfold (so doing it will also help to speed up the game setup!!!).


There were some battle mats designed for use in the tournaments that were in a format that could be printed on vinyl or neoprene… they were fixed mats but offered some more transportable options. Something like that would work for what you want to do, although not as flexible as individual tiles.


https://www.devil-pig-games.com/en/forum/?action=viewtopic&t=11945.1#postid-83588


That has a couple of mat images you could use. Hope that helps!



I meant not the neoprene mats… I meant the waterproof, light and easy to fold mats similar to those DPG made for the Polish Paratroopers in Arnhem expansion… I mean… Instead of using thick and heavy cardboard for printing each single squared piece of terrain, you could print terrain tiles in the same materiak and squared formats (the Arnhem mat is cool but too big enough that I cannot play it at home… I simply don't own a table so large to keep it fair and square and also granting space to keep the rest of the game assets upon it!!!), but using the waterproof plastificated and lighter – and – easy – to bring about with you – mats that are used in other games, such as Heroclix and similar! And in the HoN expansion above mentioned …


How about new products? Posted on [08/06/2021] à 23:30

Quote from Ivan Boscaro on [08/06/2021] à 14:56


Quote from Nostradunwhich on [29/05/2021] à 06:30

There were some battle mats designed for use in the tournaments that were in a format that could be printed on vinyl or neoprene… they were fixed mats but offered some more transportable options. Something like that would work for what you want to do, although not as flexible as individual tiles.


I meant the waterproof, light and easy to fold mats similar to those DPG made for the Polish Paratroopers in Arnhem expansion…


I mentioned vinyl (such as printed banners), but you could certainly get them in a laminated poster as well, at least at printers here in the US. I have no idea if the same is available in Italy, but it seems likely.


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