Hello Rmbaar

Sgt Telion, the Scout HQ from the base box has an extra life point (mostly because he is camouflaged on his back side I would say).

Other games of the Hero system make more use of it, mostly the Cthulhu themed one for its big monsters where Black Reach tend to use the vehicle rules.

Flar

I quickly checked, I think there's only Telion that's got life points at the moment.

I suppose that's a fair point, and I may have said it wrong. Not a waste of a token since it does get used-but a waste of a mechanic. Seems a bit strange to include it, with what probably amounts to several dozen units if expansions are included, for just 1 figure to have it.

Ok, I'm probably more adamant about using extra life points than I should be, but I'm wondering if there are any units that may feel underpowered, where having an additional life point would be fitting thematically (vehicles, heavily armored infantry, etc) and would bring an underpowered unit up to par for its point value. Any you guys can think of? Alternatively, if I wanted to for my own sessions add on a life point to a given unit, how many points do you think that would be worth? It'd probably be worth more on certain units than others, just looking for a ballpark estimate for my own at home usage.

Anyways, not trying to sound gripey-I'm very much loving this game. What are your opinions on the expansions?

That sounds excellent, thank you!

I own Blackreach. Currently only have the base game but intend to get the expansions at some point.

EDIT: Going to just post any questions I have in this thread instead of making new ones.

While I am enjoying the game, I do find I wish I could get a couple more order points/turn. Its starting to feel like a "put my 2-3 orders on my 2/3 units best set up to kill their strongest unit(s), and take them out before mine die" instead of something more tactical. Like the tactic makes sense but the limited attacks makes my options feel limited. Has anyone tested giving additional action tokens to both sides for free, and if so, what's a balanced way to do it? I'm aware there are options which will give additional orders (though my token seems to be missing for this >:( so I'm using a penny), but I'm talking outside the point system. Not trying to make either side get an advantage. Marines in general have stronger but fewer units, so giving it as a 1:1 ratio seems it would give an edge probably towards the marines. Maybe a ratio (like every 200 points for orks=1 free token, every 300=1 for marines)?

I also had a strange interaction the other day, which I can hopefully recall here correctly.

A Deff Dread performed an assault against a Dreadnought. I remember there being a special spheel on heavy vehicles that don't have assault-but that doesn't apply here, since they do. Did the rolls, Deff Dread wins the assault. Do a damage roll, and check the rulebook to see how this plays out.

On page 19, if the defending unit is a heavy vehicle, it takes 1 hit:

-Roll for location. Done.

-Heavy vehicles never retreat from assaults. Attacking infantry/light vehicles must return to the square the Assault was launched from, unless…

(We have a heavy vehicle, so that doesn't apply so far)

-The attacking unit is a Heavy vehicle. Check!

AND: The defending units has a Wreck Side which is not impassible to the heavy vehicle.

The reverse side gives indication that light vehicles may not pass, but not heavy. Therefore the next sentence applies:

-In which case the attacking Unit occupies the Unit's square and deals 1 Destruction Point to the defenders Wreck.

Huh? I've applied 1 point of damage so far, and the result based on what the rules say is…I deal damage to the wreckage? The best I could make of it is the heavy vehicle just…dies, and I deal damage to the wreckage, which seems odd. Yet this seems to be what is described, any insight here?

Ok, I understand that segment. What I'm not getting is in a heavy vs heavy situation with the attacker being victorious, what exactly happens? Per the rules I laid out, it sounds as if the defender just blows up regardless of what the damage roll was. Which I guess makes sense, since a large vehicle wouldn't get moved I think-just destroyed in this situation. Which would then lead into the segments you talked about with destruction points against wreckage, and that part makes sense.

In other words, in a heavy vs heavy vehicle situation with the attacker claiming victory, the defender will die regardless of his roll and become wreckage, which then turns us to the wreckage/destruction rules. Which would make heavy vehicles particularly weak to other heavy vehicles in melee since 1 hit=destruction.

Ok, that makes sense…but now how do I resolve the movement afterwards? the rules initially sound like the defender won't move. Looking at the paragraph on pg 19 about "If the defending Unit is a Heavy Vehicle, it takes 1 Hit":

"When a Heavy Vehicle loses an Assault, it never retreats"-the second sentence of that paragraph. Ok, so defender isn't retreating. Sounds like the attacker should retreat, then right? But lets look at what it says for infantry/light/heavy:

"Attacking Infantry or Light vehicles must return to the square the Assault was launched from." Ok, 2/3 will return, sounds good.

"Unless…" we have an exception to the retreat rule here is what it sounds like, under the circumstances its about to list.

"-The attacking unit is a Heavy vehicle" it is, so this applies to my situation.

"AND:" looks like I need this other condition fulfilled in order for what comes next to happen.

"-The defending unit has a Wreck Side which is not Impassable to Heavy Vehicle." This actually should create 2 possibilities it should be describing. One in which the defending unit has a Wreck Side which is not impassable to H vehicles, and one which DOES have impassable to H vehicles.

So what does it tell me?

"-In which case the attacking unit occupies the target units squire and deals 1 Destruction Point to the defender's wreck. Otherwise, it falls back as above."

So it does give us 2 possibilities: If the unit's wreck side is impassable, it falls back as above. The heavy retreats.

If it has a wreck side that is *not* impassible for a heavy vehicle…then I fulfill what the second to last sentence states since I've fulfilled all the conditions: "the attacking Unit occupies the target Unit's square and deals 1 Destruction Point to the defender's Wreck."

Which as you pointed out Destruction point=/=damage point. My take away is one of two things if these conditions are fulfilled in heavy vs heavy, with the assaulter being victorious:

1.The assaulter DESTROYS the defender like a light vehicle (which I could see logically making sense-if a giant tank runs over another giant tank which can't move away, its probably dead)

2.There is an oversight in the rules. You're only supposed to turn it to wrecked side if it was actually destroyed.

I'm leaning towards 1 right now.

But then this makes me question why even bother with the damage marker if it doesn't have impassible terrain-it's going to die anyways!