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Wrecks blocking a vital path
Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [21/07/2020] à 22:37

Hi,


When a vehicle is destroyed and becomes a wreck, then in most of our games it stays there until the end. In some scenarios this is very frustrating when a vehicle blocks a path between two houses. The only way to get rid of it is by using a weapon with the destruction ability. In our scenario I'm lucky to have 2 panzerfausts with my FFI, but the structure value of the wrecked vehicle is 3. And there are two of these blocking my path….


So we thought about a house rule for this situation: "every wreck receives one destruction point in the supply phase."


To me this feels like a very interesting house rule. What do you think? Or, has someone an alternative suggestion to overcome this problem? Any idea would be appreciated.


Peter.


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [22/07/2020] à 00:21

Grab the Heroes of Stalingrad PDF available in the Downloads section. v2.0 rules include the ability to push wrecks.


If you don't have a vehicle available, however, a Panzerfaust has Destruction 2, which means you roll 2 dice, and if you roll a 4-6 on both dice, that puts 2 destruction points on the wreck. Both Panzerfausts could well destroy the wreck if you are willing to spend them both.


But beyond that, I don't know about you but I find a burning vehicle a deterrent to MY forward movement. Next time, don't wreck the vehicle in an inconvenient spot :mrgreen:


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [22/07/2020] à 11:34

Quote from krultan on [21/07/2020] à 22:37

Hi,


When a vehicle is destroyed and becomes a wreck, then in most of our games it stays there until the end. In some scenarios this is very frustrating when a vehicle blocks a path between two houses. The only way to get rid of it is by using a weapon with the destruction ability. In our scenario I'm lucky to have 2 panzerfausts with my FFI, but the structure value of the wrecked vehicle is 3. And there are two of these blocking my path….


So we thought about a house rule for this situation: "every wreck receives one destruction point in the supply phase."


To me this feels like a very interesting house rule. What do you think? Or, has someone an alternative suggestion to overcome this problem? Any idea would be appreciated.


Peter.


I also find it frustrating if my opponent shoots at me or throws grenades at me. 😉 😆


I wouldn't use your house rule, wrecks do not just disappear in a couple of minutes (I imagine a turn in HoN is a minute at most).


If you want to houserule something I would create a rule to determine if the vehicle caught fire or not. If on Fire it will remain an inpassable object but if not on fire it may be possible to climb over it (or something like that).


But I wouldn't want to change much about the rules… It's part of the game/tactics to try to blow up a vehicle to block your opponent and part of your tactics to not put it in a place where it blocks your advance.


There is a historic fact that a tank commander (thanks to google : Otto Carius) with his unit of tanks destroyed and entire Russian column by destroying the first and the last vehicle on a road and thereby trapping the rest. They could only leave the road and ride into a soft, swampy field and became easy targets. Wrecks are a pain to deal with 😉


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [22/07/2020] à 23:52

Hi,


Currently we are playing a fan made scenario called 'Triton'. It is a 6 to 8 player scenario on a 3×7 sized board, but we play it with just the two of us. One of the victory objectives is in a house which only could be reached by two paths which are blocked by two vehicles. So I can not reach the victory objective. Following the official rules it doesn't really matter if I blow up one of these vehicles. I still can not reach the house.


So we were looking for a solution to solve this issue. Otherwise the scenario is unplayable. Another solution is to breach the wall of one of the surrounding houses to create an alternative path. It's possible, but if I can not breach a wall the objective is still not reachable.


Eclo, one of the alternative we thought of is:


"Every wreck receives one destruction point in the supply phase. Once the wreck is destroyed is stays in place, but loses his 'impassable for infantry' terrain effect. An infantry can pass through the square(s) the vehicle occupies, but can not stop on one of these hexes. Once passed, the unit receives a Suppressed marker."


Which is a lot more rules than our first suggestion:


"every wreck receives one destruction point in the supply phase."


I think we going to continue the scenario with this last house rule.


Peter.


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [23/07/2020] à 00:00

If a scenario has a condition that requires access to a specific location that can be blocked by wrecks, then yes, you would likely need some sort of special scenario rule.


What you have there seems like it would fit the bill. Alternatively, I've seen scenarios (I think in HoN but if not, in other games) where if a wreck would make an objective impossible to reach, the owner of the destroyed vehicle moves it until that condition is no longer present.


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [23/07/2020] à 09:25

IIRC, Wittmann did the same thing at Villers-Bocage. It was either standard German doctrine or just a good idea :mrgreen:


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [23/07/2020] à 09:49

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [23/07/2020] à 09:25

IIRC, Wittmann did the same thing at Villers-Bocage. It was either standard German doctrine or just a good idea :mrgreen:


Well, I must say I thought it was Wittman as well but while googling couldn't find the story and Otto Carius' one came up. Perhaps my google source was wrong ?


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [23/07/2020] à 09:55

Quote from Uncle_Joe on [23/07/2020] à 00:00

If a scenario has a condition that requires access to a specific location that can be blocked by wrecks, then yes, you would likely need some sort of special scenario rule.


I'm all for scenario specific rules 😀 They can add some more excitement to otherwise basic scenarios.


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [23/07/2020] à 10:24

Quote from krultan on [22/07/2020] à 23:52

Hi,


Currently we are playing a fan made scenario called 'Triton'. It is a 6 to 8 player scenario on a 3×7 sized board, but we play it with just the two of us. One of the victory objectives is in a house which only could be reached by two paths which are blocked by two vehicles. So I can not reach the victory objective. Following the official rules it doesn't really matter if I blow up one of these vehicles. I still can not reach the house.


So we were looking for a solution to solve this issue. Otherwise the scenario is unplayable. Another solution is to breach the wall of one of the surrounding houses to create an alternative path. It's possible, but if I can not breach a wall the objective is still not reachable.


Eclo, one of the alternative we thought of is:


"Every wreck receives one destruction point in the supply phase. Once the wreck is destroyed is stays in place, but loses his 'impassable for infantry' terrain effect. An infantry can pass through the square(s) the vehicle occupies, but can not stop on one of these hexes. Once passed, the unit receives a Suppressed marker."


Which is a lot more rules than our first suggestion:


"every wreck receives one destruction point in the supply phase."


I think we going to continue the scenario with this last house rule.


Peter.


3 x 7 board… Nice, must be impressive to look at.


And please, continue playing as you see fit, including that house rule.


I just want to add a small remark, something to think about if you want.

If an objective can be so easily blocked by just 2 wrecks perhaps you can rethink either the map (add more routes to objective) or rethink the troops (less vehicles for those players). Just a thought.


Enjoy your battle !


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [23/07/2020] à 14:35

It is best to have several paths to Victory included in a scenario in case one option is prohibited.


As such the game isn't ruined if the access to one position is blocked.


Otherwise, rules, terrain layout or scenario options could provide at least one way of access that remains open.


The path to Victory can then be hampered but it is not prohibited.


Rolling dice to see if a unit or character manages to squeeze past a blocking vehicle might be a possibility.


Suggestion : it only works upon rolling a 6 or at least 6 during the first attempt, 5 or 6 the next turn, 4,5 or 6 the next turn, etc…

Eventually the entrance could be gained, game time permitting.

Players could agree the attempt to pass always fails on 1 or 1,2 even 3?


Due to the turn limit, that might add some suspense to the game.


Access is then hindered but not impossible.


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [23/07/2020] à 18:56

If the paths are pre-blocked by the scenario writer, then they must have something in mind.


You could use wall breaches (I cannot remember which of the 3 big scenario packs had that atm, not at my computer). When you do destruction to a building, you can put in a breach big enough to allow inits to enter.


I think the breach rules are available for download in the rules for the HoS expansion pack.


Do you have a link to the scenario? That would make it easier to suggest options.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [24/07/2020] à 17:18

The wall breach counters came with the Sainte-Mère-Eglise and Carentan expansions.


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [09/08/2020] à 14:53

Quote from Eclo on [23/07/2020] à 09:49


Quote from Nostradunwhich on [23/07/2020] à 09:25

IIRC, Wittmann did the same thing at Villers-Bocage. It was either standard German doctrine or just a good idea :mrgreen:


Well, I must say I thought it was Wittman as well but while googling couldn't find the story and Otto Carius' one came up. Perhaps my google source was wrong ?



It is more simple… Google doesn't report the history of Wittmann because he was an SS member,,, So it is politically un-correct to post links to his life and military history… Shame on the "politically correct stuff" put to the extreme !!! It should instead be studied as (taken by a side his membership of the waffen SS panzer groups) an example of military prowess and skillfullness… As him alone destroyed almost 20 british tanks and half-tracks and lorries in a single attack run / ambush…


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [09/08/2020] à 15:04

Quote from Nostradunwhich on [23/07/2020] à 18:56

If the paths are pre-blocked by the scenario writer, then they must have something in mind.


You could use wall breaches (I cannot remember which of the 3 big scenario packs had that atm, not at my computer). When you do destruction to a building, you can put in a breach big enough to allow inits to enter.


I think the breach rules are available for download in the rules for the HoS expansion pack.


Do you have a link to the scenario? That would make it easier to suggest options.


It is more simple than anything else… They have only FFI troops with light veichules or weaponry ? Good… They simply have to use the dynamite and trigger for dynamites that the core box gives to the player… In addition… If I also recall it well, the FFI side also hase means such as FFI dynamite tokens and trigger for them… Similar in every aspect to those given with the core box… Then – they can simply choose that type of wargear or assing it by default and gratis (as I often do when I invent or setup missions involving the poor French maquisards !!!).

With dynamite wargear and their triggers the FFI can also open a way for itself to reach the goal point and win the day !!! Or they can use it to blow up heavy tanks and / or trains and bridges or roads too during the mission !!! And it is also very easy to modify the existing rules for the dynamite wargear or invent new house rules for it (as I did, since normal rules say that you have to be within 3 squares away from the dynamites themselves in order to blow them up… But I think it is not sufficient since in real life you should be very far away from a mined bridge, in example, to avoid being involved or injured yourself from the explosion !!! I also state that in certain cases the units can trigger the mined bridges by being closer !!! In so doing they will surely suicide themselves… But at least they acted as proper "HEROES OF NORMANDIE", as the title of the game suggest !!! In the real life and in this game heroes are needed sometimes, and sometimes people act heroically (or they act cowardly) willingly too !!!


Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [10/08/2020] à 08:40

Google is filtering their results a lot lately. Try another search engine.


Volunteer Moderator of the English Language Forums
Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Wrecks blocking a vital path Posted on [10/08/2020] à 14:25

Quote from krultan on [21/07/2020] à 22:37

Hi,


When a vehicle is destroyed and becomes a wreck, then in most of our games it stays there until the end. In some scenarios this is very frustrating when a vehicle blocks a path between two houses. The only way to get rid of it is by using a weapon with the destruction ability. In our scenario I'm lucky to have 2 panzerfausts with my FFI, but the structure value of the wrecked vehicle is 3. And there are two of these blocking my path….


So we thought about a house rule for this situation: "every wreck receives one destruction point in the supply phase."


To me this feels like a very interesting house rule. What do you think? Or, has someone an alternative suggestion to overcome this problem? Any idea would be appreciated.


Peter.


Just give to the FFI partisans some explosives tokens… Such as those seen in the core sets… And maybe use the rule that they can just place a mine-token or a dynamite token upon the wrecks and blow them up in order to oper a way of access or a clear path… After all, dynamite is used to blow up parts of mountains and bridges (expecially the second one, in the case of WW II !!!) so… What prevents your FFI troops to use dynamite tokens (maybe with some House Ruling, if you dislike the DVPig Games rules about them and their use) that where provided with expansions and core sets or core boxes of Normandie / Stalingrad ? Just give the relative tokens to the FFI troops at the start of the match, or scatter those tokens all around the map as I sometime do: once a troop gets closer to it the troops can take the tokens with them and use in later turns… Or if something "unexpected" or "unwanted" happens, such as a pair of blown up tanks that block line of fire or access to goal zones for the mission to be "Accomplished" !!!


😉 Heroes of Normandie is simply fantastic and offers a pletora of tokens that fit also for house ruling and also missions and sides such as the poor "partisans / terroristen" that can be granted access (even FREE access) to certain type of wargears in order to balance the game somehow… Otherwise they will suffer alot for the lacking of strategical choices at their disposal…


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