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More Suppression!
More Suppression! Posted on [28/06/2020] à 02:59

This is more or less a cross-post from BGG.


One thing I have noticed now that I have played HoN and HoS against a larger group of people (via TTS and the Steam game) is that people rarely use Suppression fire. The units capable of using Suppression fire tend to be the units that have, by far, the best chance of a kill. So shooting to Suppress seems wasteful of their abilities.


Yes, there are a few circumstance where Suppression makes sense but by and large it happens fairly infrequently in the game. On the other hand, there are myriad ways to remove it (NCOs, cards, Recruitment options). Some of those options are rarely chosen but if they are (and they are cheap), then it completely makes Suppression pointless because even IF you do it, they can remove it on a critical unit and ignore it on units that will just unsuppress at the end of the turn.


One thing I have experimented with (and had great results with) is that when a unit is attacked and the attacker rolls exactly one lower than what is needed to hit, the target is Suppressed (example, if you roll a 5 and the target's total defense is 6 then you would Suppress the target).


This becomes an instant game-changer! Now those low-odds +1 shots are worth taking and things like Artillery, Grenades and tank-fire can actually suppress! Once a few Suppression are on the board from normal fire, THEN it can make more sense to fire your MGs to suppress because you can stack them up and cause units to be paralyzed or ineffective for multiple turns.


The battlefield feels much more 'alive' with some units being pinned down without needing to spend your most valuable firepower to do it all the time. If playing with the Morale rules, you REALLY have to keep your Leaders in key positions to keep your force from deteriorating quickly.


Once I played a few solo games like this I introduced it to a few friends online and they were instantly sold on it. The game took on a fresh quality and tactics immediately changed. I highly recommend trying it out and seeing what you think. It's easy to do and it has a very positive effect on play IMO.


More Suppression! Posted on [02/07/2020] à 09:28

This is such a great idea! Thanks for sharing it. I can already visualize how the battlefield would seem more alive. It makes sense to me too — if guys standing next to you start getting killed, you'd probably duck for cover.


Quote from Uncle_Joe on [28/06/2020] à 02:59

This becomes an instant game-changer! Now those low-odds +1 shots are worth taking …


I'm not quite understanding this logic — are you saying the low-odds +1 shots are worth taking because now the payoff for hitting is higher? It seems like these shots are still not worth taking because you have a low chance to hit, and an even lower chance to suppress.


More Suppression! Posted on [02/07/2020] à 21:03

This is such a great idea! Thanks for sharing it. I can already visualize how the battlefield would seem more alive. It makes sense to me too — if guys standing next to you start getting killed, you'd probably duck for cover.


Thanks for the feedback! And yep, you nailed it, currently if they are shooting to kill you (aka, not firing to Suppress) you never duck for cover or are bothered by the fire that doesn't reduce or kill the target. That doesn't make a lot of sense (and the fact that Grenades/arty/tank fire etc can't suppress seems odd too). This rule takes care of all of that. 😉


I'm not quite understanding this logic — are you saying the low-odds +1 shots are worth taking because now the payoff for hitting is higher? It seems like these shots are still not worth taking because you have a low chance to hit, and an even lower chance to suppress.


Ah, I see. I worded it poorly. I meant to say roll one LOWER than what is needed, you suppress the target. I originally had worded it as 'if the defense is 1 higher than what is rolled' and then I screwed up when I reverted it. I'll edit the original post, thanks!


Given that correction, on the low odds shots, it can double the chance of having SOME effect. For example, a reduced Fire Team typically has a +1 firepower vs Infantry targets. If you have an Leader/Hero in the woods you'd roll d6+1 and the target's defense is 6+1 you need to roll a 6 to kill. With this rule, you'd hit on a 6 and suppress on a 5 (one less than what is needed top hit).


More Suppression! Posted on [02/07/2020] à 23:09

Quote from Uncle_Joe on [02/07/2020]

Ah, I see. I worded it poorly. I meant to say roll one LOWER than what is needed, you suppress the target.


I was suspecting this is what you meant 😀


More Suppression! Posted on [17/07/2020] à 19:37

Just a thought about another alternative, taken without shame from the card game, would be to use a double on the dice as an auto suppression. Even if you miss you might suppress. “How do you roll two dice when you only need one” I hear you ask. Take two dice of different colours, say red and black. Nominate the red as the to hit dice. The black dice then is only used for the testing of suppression through a double. If you’re assaulting and rolling two dice already then you have your two dice, no need for more. This also allows worn out and wounded troops to try and provide some covering fire even if they couldn’t hit the target. Put enough lead down around a window and the bloke inside might want to keep his head tucked in.


It’s going to suppress 1 in 6, if my maths is still up to par, which is definitely more than now. I need to try it out with NCOs and such to get a feel but like uncle Joe says suppression seems a rarity. Obviously current scenarios are balanced on the existing rules so this could break things. If I can get enough games in I’ll report back.


More Suppression! Posted on [18/07/2020] à 05:56

I quite like this idea. And just to add a little to the conversation, because I have also rarely found FFS to be of much effect, this is an idea I like to use which keeps suppression from degrading before it has had a moment to effect units.


Get some supply of alternate markers (I picked up some red Tiddlywinks). I'm going to refer to units with this marker on them as having been Clipped. When a unit that has already activated is first suppressed give them a Clipped marker instead. Clips act in all ways as a suppressed token, but are not removed in the supplies phase but instead are replaced by standard suppression tokens in the fifth phase; additionally, a Clip reverts to a suppression if the effected unit is assulted or re-activates in any manner.


In this way suppression will almost always effect the unit applied to, even if it isn't until next round.


More Suppression! Posted on [23/07/2020] à 00:02

Quote from Andyspav on [17/07/2020] à 19:37

Just a thought about another alternative, taken without shame from the card game, would be to use a double on the dice as an auto suppression. Even if you miss you might suppress. “How do you roll two dice when you only need one” I hear you ask. Take two dice of different colours, say red and black. Nominate the red as the to hit dice. The black dice then is only used for the testing of suppression through a double. If you’re assaulting and rolling two dice already then you have your two dice, no need for more. This also allows worn out and wounded troops to try and provide some covering fire even if they couldn’t hit the target. Put enough lead down around a window and the bloke inside might want to keep his head tucked in.


It’s going to suppress 1 in 6, if my maths is still up to par, which is definitely more than now. I need to try it out with NCOs and such to get a feel but like uncle Joe says suppression seems a rarity. Obviously current scenarios are balanced on the existing rules so this could break things. If I can get enough games in I’ll report back.


Yeah, I think in most cases, this will amount to exactly the same thing (except that very weak units attacking highly defended targets would still have their 1 in 6 shot at Suppression). I think this idea would work fine too.


More Suppression! Posted on [23/07/2020] à 00:07

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Quote from Kingprawn on [18/07/2020] à 05:56

I quite like this idea. And just to add a little to the conversation, because I have also rarely found FFS to be of much effect, this is an idea I like to use which keeps suppression from degrading before it has had a moment to effect units.


Get some supply of alternate markers (I picked up some red Tiddlywinks). I'm going to refer to units with this marker on them as having been Clipped. When a unit that has already activated is first suppressed give them a Clipped marker instead. Clips act in all ways as a suppressed token, but are not removed in the supplies phase but instead are replaced by standard suppression tokens in the fifth phase; additionally, a Clip reverts to a suppression if the effected unit is assulted or re-activates in any manner.


In this way suppression will almost always effect the unit applied to, even if it isn't until next round.


Yep, I understand the idea behind this and in theory, I agree. It seems fairly lame that units that have already acted are unaffected by Suppression (unless they are the targets of Assaults later in the round).


But I think this actually makes it worse for units that have acted than for unit that have not. And it could have ramifications on mobility that might change the game a bit too much (ie, now you could move a unit and then be pinned in the open if Suppressed afterwards and then you suffer the penalty the following turn). I think the game already rewards movement in the Supply Phase a bit too much (since they are immune to attack) and a rule like this would add even more incentive to simply hang back and move in the Supply Phase.


I'm happy to see more Suppression in the game, but I don't think I'd want it to persist into the next turn at this level. If you want that effect, Suppress it twice. 😉


(As an anecdote, in my last HoS game, I had a Russian unit with 5 Suppression on it…the Germans had a few units that caused autos-Suppression and it also suffered a few from my house rule. Needless to say, it was pretty much out of the game at that point lol. But to me it felt right…the unit was Broken after the volume of fire directed at it!).


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