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Opportunity fire and assault
Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [01/04/2020] à 23:21

Hi,

I would like to make clear on my mind these:

Whenever a unit declares assault, may triggers opportunity fire, according to rules. Does this happens even when the two enemy units are adjacent? eg as the attacking unit leaves its square and goes to the next square of the defender’s square, in the intervening time.

Also, does an opportunity fire, triggers other opportunity fires too? On Hos rules I read that is permitted the OF after the enemy’s fire besides the movement.

Ending,

if on a battle activity, I would like to group together a card along the dice and the combat value, and I decide to reroll my d6 roll by using a veteran counter, does the card still counts on the second roll, or it leaves with the first one?

And, to do not forget it……..on scenario War, it’s a mess, as regards the reinforcements, writes, “randomly drawn from all those available to you, regardless of colored bands”…….I suppose it means those that left on the box unused, right?


Thanks being always so helpful


Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [02/04/2020] à 20:26

Someone to answer on this post, please!!!!!


Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [02/04/2020] à 21:53

There's a Movement Sequence which is really helpful in these situations where you need to figure out when the Opportunity Fire event is triggered. This sequence can be found in the Heroes of Stalingrad rule book, and in the Compendium.



MOVEMENT SEQUENCE

Declare Movement Action and any Assault

– Possibility of Fire on the Move

– Possibility of Opportunity Fire (if Fire on the Move)


Move 1 square or Change of State on the spot (zero move)

– Check whether a concealed moving unit should be turned over and revealed

– Possibility of Fire on the Move

– Possibility of Opportunity Fire *

– Repeat this movement sequence until the end of the Movement Action.


End of the Movement Action

– Resolve any assaults

– Check whether enemy concealed units should be turned over and revealed


With that sequence in mind, your example does trigger Opportunity Fire. I placed an asterisk (*) at the exact moment your example happens: AFTER the movement of 1 square, and BEFORE the resolving of the Assault.


Opportunity Fire is a Firing Action, triggered by another Firing Action or a Movement Action. This means Opportunity Fire can trigger further Opportunity Fire.


I'm not sure about the Card + Veteran ability. I think the card is wasted in the first try, although I'm not exactly sure.


☠☠☠Heroes of Belgium ☠☠☠

Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [04/04/2020] à 03:13

It's not often one gets to correct Bartdevuyst 😀


The Veteran counter is simply a re-roll of the die, replacing the first result. All other bonuses and minuses still apply.


He does however point out something I have been doing incorrectly forever; I've always thought of OpFire as being in response to an action having happened, the move and assault as being simultaneous, and as such an assault from an adjacent space would have to conclude before the shot could be taken. Now I know different.


Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [04/04/2020] à 10:33

Ha! Good point Kingprawn, that sounds correct about the Veteran reroll!


☠☠☠Heroes of Belgium ☠☠☠

Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [05/04/2020] à 05:43

For a clearer version of the rules, see the HoS rules for Assault (p. 17-18). The relevant rules are at the top of p. 18:


An Assault is a special Movement Action; it triggers all move-related rules, including Opportunity Fire and Fire on the Move (see Move sequence, p. 26). The actual assault happens in the moment just before the movement into the target's square.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [05/04/2020] à 08:35

Damn. That section doesn't actually clear up much in the case of an assault from a unit starting it's activation from an adjacent space.

Let me be the demon of dissent here.


By the rules on page 18:

The attacker needs to have enough movement to enter the square, and is placed partially over the target, but is still considered to be in the square the assault originates from, and isn't actually moving until after the assault has concluded. In not moving yet, it wouldn't trigger the option to OpFire where Bartdevuyst placed the asterisk, because that opportunity only happens after having moved a space.


Further than that, looking at the sequence on 26, one could conclude that this assault couldn't be fired into at any point, as in the 'End of the Movement Action' section, after resolving the assault there isn't another written occasion for OpFire. Which actually makes real-world sense as your other units wouldn't recklessly fire into a scrum, being just as likely to hit their own men.

Unless you're SS; then you just kill everybody for fraternizing. 😆


Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [05/04/2020] à 10:08

Well, I agree with Kingprawn.

I have read both Hos and compendium at least three or four times each, I'm playing solo, so I have the time freely and without annoying downtime to backtrack on the rules.

I have noticed all these points you point me, sometimes I conclude on the results you also answer by making some reductions from paragraph to paragraph even in different pages, the problem is that it could be more clear and definite written. There is to some degree vagueness.

I don't want to be the nerve-racking guy of the group, this game likes me, the proof is that in my collection there are all the stuff regarding hon/Hos and the Hon Tcg Overlord, except those out of print.

You see, having given this amount of money and time the least you need is to play the game correctly. My pal tried it back on 2014 and abondened it exactly for this reason, otherwise I wouldn't played it solo.


Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [05/04/2020] à 11:22

Let's look at the actual paragraph that is discussing the assault event itself, not the declaration or the charge across the field (if there is one) but the actual assault:


An assault can ONLY be launched from an unoccupied square adjacent to the defender.


A pedant could argue that in the case of starting your turn adjacent, you cannot launch the assault from an adjacent unoccupied spot because you unit is occupying the spot. This part is written as if you are screaming across a field to assault a unit and is trying to prevent someone from leaping over rubble or an enemy unit to strike the unit behind that square. You can assault from the square right next to the target unit even if you start there that turn, since it is not occupied by anything that would prevent you from reaching your target.


You must have the movement necessary to end your turn in your target's square.


That is just common sense. You cannot engage them in hand-to-hand fighting if you cannot get to their space.


An Assault is a SPECIAL move action. It triggers ALL move-related rules, INCLUDING Opp-fire and Fire on the move. The actual assault happens in the moment before the movement into the target's square.


The key term here is SPECIAL. What would be the point of mentioning Opportunity Fire if it was not meant to be triggered by the assault? Since the paragraph then immediately state that the actual assault happens before the movement into the square, there would be no point in mentioning Op-Fire unless the SPECIAL nature of the move meant it triggered anyway.


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Remember: If you are not willing to shell your own position you are not willing to win!

Opportunity fire and assault Posted on [05/04/2020] à 19:24

All true. But that 'Special move action' would still be dictated by the move sequence on 26, and that's why it's mentioned. And in that sequence, it's not the announcement that you're moving that provokes OpFire, it's having completed moving into a new space, and I think the same would be true for the Assault; announcing your intent isn't the provocation, it's the taking of the space.

And for the moment that you're engaged with the enemy, nobody else is firing into the pit.


Also, I can't think of a more heroic moment than a unit unexpectedly sprinting across open ground to take that pesky foxhole. Purple Hearts right there. Not a dry eye in the house. That's Clint in a nutshell. That's the cinematic part of the game. Not Clint getting to the edge of combat, only to be shot in the face. Not very cinematic that. Keep Clint doing what Clint does best… clearing foxholes.


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